tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11850330.post178739649621918362..comments2023-08-03T04:54:54.068-04:00Comments on Abacaxi Mamão: More on "אוכל פירותיהן בעולם הזה והקרן קיימת לו לעולם הבא"Abacaxi Mamaohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06604184268628243496noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11850330.post-84530509765085565182007-01-28T23:18:00.000-05:002007-01-28T23:18:00.000-05:00Drew,
No, I haven't. You may have missed these tw...Drew,<br /><br />No, I haven't. You may have missed these two sentences tucked into the middle of this post:<br /><br />"Is it as simple as a variant text of Shabbat 127a? How would one find out such a thing if one was, say, too lazy to get oneself over to the JTS library?"<br /><br />You may either define me as a lazy layperson who doesn't have easy access to such things or as a hard-working balabat (balatabat?) who has to snatch moments for Torah amidst grueling days toiling in the labor force.<br /><br />I really should go to the JTS library, if for no other reason than I've never been there. (Other reasons: I would enjoy it and I'm friends with the librarians.) Reasons not to go: too busy working during the week and taking care of errands and learning on Sundays.Abacaxi Mamaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06604184268628243496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11850330.post-20990246905977568622007-01-28T23:01:00.000-05:002007-01-28T23:01:00.000-05:00Have you checked the various manuscripts on this (...Have you checked the various manuscripts on this (for instance, using the Lieberman CD) and/or <i>Dikduqe Soferim</i> for textual variants?Drew Kaplanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08969020134924433950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11850330.post-70260519404046858872007-01-25T19:33:00.000-05:002007-01-25T19:33:00.000-05:00in some nusach sfard sidurim, there is a parenthet...in some nusach sfard sidurim, there is a parenthetical "u'vein ish v'ishto" after "v'hava'at shalom bein adam l'chaveiro". there may be other differences, but not that I can remember offhand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11850330.post-50701789529413954502007-01-25T01:27:00.000-05:002007-01-25T01:27:00.000-05:00Thank you again, Dave! Once again, you bring more ...Thank you again, Dave! Once again, you bring more helpful information to the discussion. Just out of curiosity, when was נתיב בינה published?<br /><br />I hate to be so consistently skeptical (okay, so I don't *really* hate to be so consistently skeptical), but I don't see how "הדן את חברו לכף זכות," which is one of the two phrases from Shabbat 127a that the siddur left out, is LESS about interpersonal relations than "early attendance at the house of study morning and evening," which is retained in the siddur text. I do like the idea of keeping the symbolism of ten commandments, though.<br /><br />I still want to know why they (whoever and whenever "they" is) added these two mitzvot as opposed to any number of others that deal with intpersonal relations. And where staying late in the beit midrash came from, although I suppose it's not much of a leap since the braita on Shabbat 127a mentioned coming to the beit midrash early.<br /><br />Also curious as to how standardized the text that I say every morning is. Is is the same in the various nusachs? (Nuscha'ot?)Abacaxi Mamaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06604184268628243496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11850330.post-3177307228896402622007-01-25T00:57:00.000-05:002007-01-25T00:57:00.000-05:00Ok, I have a little bit more for you, this time fr...Ok, I have a little bit more for you, this time from B.S Jacobson's "The Weekly Siddur" (נתיב בינה in Hebrew).<br /><br />He refers to a study by Abraham Berliner (Randbemerkungen p. 18) that deals with this issue. Berliner notes that the Mishna in Peah (4) together with the Braita in Shabbat (6) make up 10 items. He then writes (and I'm not sure what's Berliner and what's Jacobson):<br /><br />"The compilers and editors of the Siddur also restricted their own enumeration to ten items by omitting the last two and substituting in their stead: 'dowering the bride' and 'attending the dead to the grave.' Supposedly, these two topics were better suited for a text which deals, in general, with commandments pertaining to interpersonal relations."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11850330.post-40697919852825644382007-01-24T22:45:00.000-05:002007-01-24T22:45:00.000-05:00Thanks, Dave! That's very interesting. I wonder if...Thanks, Dave! That's very interesting. I wonder if the same thing is true of לויית המת? Also, I wonder when, historically, it got added, and why the siddur version omits some lovely parts of the braita on Shabbat 127a. Still most perplexed, although less so.Abacaxi Mamaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06604184268628243496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11850330.post-48120885112310165722007-01-24T16:59:00.000-05:002007-01-24T16:59:00.000-05:00The Encyclopedia Talmudit, entry "Hachnasat Kallah...The Encyclopedia Talmudit, entry "Hachnasat Kallah", says that there are those that include hachnasat kallah in the list of things whose fruits a person enjoys in this world but whose principle remains intact for him in the world to come.<br /><br />And in footnote 5 it says:<br /><br />הגרסה בסידורים, ואין במשנה פאה פ"א מ"א ובברייתא בשבת קכז א. ועיין שו"ת מהרש"ל סי סד שאינו אלא פירוש לגמילות חסדים, ועיין שו"ת מהר"ם שיק או"ח סי' ב.<br /><br />"This is the version in siddurim, but not in the Mishna Peah 1:1 or the braita in Shabbat 127a. Look in the responsa of the Maharshal 64, who says that this is just an explanation of "acts of kindness", and look in the responsa of the Maharam Schick, Orach Chaim 2.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11850330.post-63868017078297291022007-01-23T23:43:00.000-05:002007-01-23T23:43:00.000-05:00How about translating k'neged as "assists," hearke...How about translating k'neged as "assists," hearkening back to the term "ezer k'negdo" in Bereshit?Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16491386537225283381noreply@blogger.com